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2blu
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Quote 2blu Replybullet Topic: Getting the mix right
    Posted: 10 March 2007 at 12:52pm
I have a continual problem, and am sure that I can't be the only one-looking for advice on how to deal with it.

When I do my mixed down, I can never get the balance right. I know my set up is terrible-I basically sit between two massive cabinets that will originially built be a classical enthusiast, and give a very clean sound.

However, when I listen to the same mix on headphones, it's always completely different-different meaning awefull.

So I remix, then listen to it somewhere else, completely different again, and so on and so  on.

I can eventually get it right, but wondered if anyone had any easy ways to get it right faster?
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Quote WaVeS Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 7:00am

Hiya, I don't think that I can be a big help to you, but maybe it's some comfort to you to know that I have this continual problem too.

Seems to be a fact that our music sounds different on every system and it can drive you nuts.
 
I remember my very first time when I listened to one of my songs with the headphones on and I almost fainted. What an embarrassement! There was stuff in there I didn't even know about yet.
 
Since then I'm always wearing my headphones while doing ditties - seems to me the best start to get a fairly good production. - Probably the sound of your tracks might be depending on your kind of headphones as well, but  I never thought deeply about this possibility in order to keep the remainders of my mental health .
 
For better help I think it would be useful to put your thread in the music help section again.
 
 
 
 


Edited by WaVeS - 11 March 2007 at 7:45am
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Quote Contayjen Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 10:46am
The solution to the problem of tracks sounding different on different systems is known as mastering.  Ideally you will master your tracks with just the right eq so that the bass is audible but not too strong, and the higher frequencies are in a nice slope without and peaks that stick out. 

Every music system and listening environment has its own frequency response which will contribute to the frequency content of your track and you must compensate for that when you master.

The most common tried and tested method for getting the right eq is A/B'ing.  You switch between a commercially produced and mastered track and your own, adjusting the eq on your master until it has the same frequency content as the commercial track.  Here is the spectrum from a commercial dnb track I've used recently to A/B against.  You will notice that both the bass and the top end are strong and the sound is balanced all across the spectrum.  Look at the spectrum of your own track and you will commonly find that without the extra treble (or bass cut depending on how you look at it) of modern mastering, it will probably have a dull top end and as a result it will be perceived as much quieter, even though it isn't.



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Quote WaVeS Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 3:44pm
There's a real crack, the master of mastering for you (and me) ! Thank you, Jez!
 
I'm aware that it probably takes some studying of the handbook and all, knowing the main clues now, and I don't wanna take up too much time of you, but just to get a general idea:
 
How would you "read" the eq of your master? And can you save this as a preset and just transfer it to your track? (sounds too easy, I'm getting suspicious already )


Edited by WaVeS - 11 March 2007 at 3:45pm
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Quote Contayjen Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 5:14pm
You use your ears, generally, although there are tools you can use to help.  Voxengo SPAN is a (free, naturally ) VST spectrum analyzer that can be used to compare the spectrum of commercial tracks with your own.  Its important to use your ears at the same time though, so don't just rely on the graph to eq to.  The other thing is that you can use it train your ears as to where all the frequencies are, so eventually when you hear a particular peak, you'll know instinctively where it is without looking at the graph.  To get the most out of A/Bing using your ears alone, you really need a balanced acoustic environment as bass frequencies are unbalanced in untreated rooms and can appear louder or quieter very easily (depending on where you are in the room).  Its often safer to mix/ A/B the bass end of things with headphones because of this.

You can always cheat by using the AAMS mastering software (free for a few goes) and that can actually lift the mastering off any track you want and apply it to your own.  Its not a perfect mastering solution but it can get you some of the way there and again, it can help train your ears along the way.

I'd recommend just listening to and analyzing a few commercial tracks to begin with, until you start to recognize the variety of eqs you can expect to find.  Different genres and styles all have their own signature eqs so you should always compare your track to something in the same style when A/B'ing.  Even then, different mastering engineers/houses result in slightly different timbres so there is no 100% perfect way of doing it. 

Even if you have no ear or environment for mastering, if you just listen to your track on every available music system, takes notes of what needs turning up and down or eqing, you can get there by trial and error (very slow this way though)

I have to say I am no mastering expert though.
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Quote tom joas Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by Contayjen


I have to say I am no mastering expert though.
 
 
He's a humble guy.
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Quote kiopo3 Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 5:23pm
I've done that a lot too.. iZotope Ozone has a really easy function which copies the eq curve from a commerical track and applies it to your own, which is all I really use it for now. Problem with that is it really depends on how you recorded and mixed the track originally. If you did a really bright mix and you apply a master eq from say an american commerical track it'll sound horrible, so make sure you compare your tracks eq first. You'll also want to smooth the curve it gives you out, often theres very specific cuts and boosts for that track.  EDIT: I worded that really badly.. what I mean is if you mixed a track with say a ridiculously loud hi-hat with a boost from 16-18Khz, and then apply a commerical master eq, its not going
to be any help in saving your mix.

It's important to remember though that even the most experienced engineers will do a mix and listen on multiple systems & headphones, its the only way to ensure general compatibility. Thats why most big studios also have a set of crappy speakers in the setup.  A general rule of thumb is to change whatever sounds bad on most systems and leave ones which only sound bad on one or two, you're always looking for the best compromise. And sadly, theres no easy way around that!! If I'm doing a track I actually care about () I'll balance on monitors, do fine detail using my best headphones, check on monitors again AND in mono and then try on my other pairs of headphones.

Once you get used to your own setup you get quicker at it though. And I can only recommend getting flat response headphones and/or monitors, eg Beyerdynamic DT100s. Then again,  I used to have a pair of £10 headphones that were awful and had no detail, but I could do well balanced mixes on. Still use them to check mixes too, as I tend to always mix bass-heavy with DT100s (anyone else find that?)


Edited by kiopo3 - 11 March 2007 at 7:21pm
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Quote WaVeS Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 7:25pm
[Toms quote]
 
He's a humble guy.
 
End]
 
 
He really is, ain't he?  - Could you translate it for me, please?


Edited by WaVeS - 11 March 2007 at 7:28pm
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Quote WaVeS Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Contayjen

You use your ears, generally, although there are tools you can use to help.  Voxengo SPAN is a (free, naturally ) VST spectrum analyzer that can be used to compare the spectrum of commercial tracks with your own.  Its important to use your ears at the same time though, so don't just rely on the graph to eq to.  The other thing is that you can use it train your ears as to where all the frequencies are, so eventually when you hear a particular peak, you'll know instinctively where it is without looking at the graph.  To get the most out of A/Bing using your ears alone, you really need a balanced acoustic environment as bass frequencies are unbalanced in untreated rooms and can appear louder or quieter very easily (depending on where you are in the room).  Its often safer to mix/ A/B the bass end of things with headphones because of this.

You can always cheat by using the AAMS mastering software (free for a few goes) and that can actually lift the mastering off any track you want and apply it to your own.  Its not a perfect mastering solution but it can get you some of the way there and again, it can help train your ears along the way.

I'd recommend just listening to and analyzing a few commercial tracks to begin with, until you start to recognize the variety of eqs you can expect to find.  Different genres and styles all have their own signature eqs so you should always compare your track to something in the same style when A/B'ing.  Even then, different mastering engineers/houses result in slightly different timbres so there is no 100% perfect way of doing it. 

Even if you have no ear or environment for mastering, if you just listen to your track on every available music system, takes notes of what needs turning up and down or eqing, you can get there by trial and error (very slow this way though)

I have to say I am no mastering expert though.
 
Was just kidding about the translation . Thanks a lot again Jez. This really gives me an idea!
 
And also many thanks for the links. This is very helpful.
 
(But oh-oh: "You use your ears"  - threatening turn in this thread  . )
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Quote kiopo3 Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 7:47pm
Ears? Mixing? NO WAY.. There has to be a better method! 

I generally aim to take my ears out of the music making process at every point possible


Edited by kiopo3 - 11 March 2007 at 7:49pm
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