Mastering level

Cubase software.

Hi Guys.
When I do a final mix on my tunes, I try to achieve as near to 0db as I can without going over. After exporting the tune as a wav file I normalize it with audacity, again to 0db before converting it to mp3. The result to my ears however is noticeably down compared to many songs/tunes on mp3 Unsigned especially Dave rave. So my question: Is it acceptable to go into the red?

Bernie Dembowski

[tbwig]

Hi Bernie,
Not sure I am saying the right things here with my 2 cents worth, so take it all with a grain of salt since I wrestle with the same issues.

I mix to .wav and keep the out at the max to -3...import to a new master and then output to my final master level...for your style of music is "0" a "normal" thing? Things go awry if you press the output to zero, in my opinion.

I hope KtA, DysfunktionalDJs, Oakwood, Tony Miller, DaveRAve, Eric Saitz all chime in, and I hope I didn't offend anyone by listing a few names and not a host of others who are equally talented. I do not mean to exclude anyone

Good question, and I think, to some extent final output will be contingent upon your style/genre, and the vagaries of your DAW. In the end, clipping is clipping and red is red. Danger zone...best be below Of course, I am always learning too.

Enjoying your renderings of traditional Baroque music !

All the best,
Terry

[KtA]

Personally I'd say no,don't go into the red.
Most times it degrades the sound quality...but not always.
I've never used ''normalize'' so I don't know what it's doing...but I'd try a compressor/limiter on the master instead.
But the more you do in the mix,the less you have to do later.
Compression and EQ on all individual tracks in the mix can make a hell of a difference to the end result.
Playing around with compression to add more sustain to certain sounds can add over all volume. Removing unnecessary frequencies with EQ,especially unwanted low frequencies,will clean up the mix and give more headroom for boosting the amplitude later.
Also,I would export the wav with no higher than a -6 db peak,which again,gives you headroom...then master as a final mix with a multiband compressor/limiter to boost over all volume without going into the red...being careful not to lose dynamics.
Loud is not always best though.

I think using this ''normalize'' twice is going to be detrimental to sound quality,but I may be wrong...never used it.

It's all trial and error

[FXMAN]

Yeah im With Mart on this one.. i never go into the red on final master.. i always throw a multiband on master channel... and slightly lower the defualt volume of the mixer .. good friend told me that trick on here .. wont say names lol.. and another thing why dont you just use Wavelab? got more stuff than audocity. or even izo on final master cheat if you want pick a preset to your genre your producing you want to master the final cut with.. i dont cheat and always mess a bout with the eqing cut low high mids, trial and error, train them ears!!!!!! dont mix with cans on i.e headcans false reading into the mix... if all else fails take up the banjo joking .. i mix the same level as Mart >>> -6 db cd quality

[FXMAN]

Originally Posted by The Fondue Brothers

Cubase software.

Hi Guys.
When I do a final mix on my tunes, I try to achieve as near to 0db as I can without going over. After exporting the tune as a wav file I normalize it with audacity, again to 0db before converting it to mp3. The result to my ears however is noticeably down compared to many songs/tunes on mp3 Unsigned especially Dave rave. So my question: Is it acceptable to go into the red?

Bernie Dembowski

fallen paradise on my page bro... mixed @ -6 db .. if you need any help send me a pm.

Peace Out.

[tbwig]

Good to see/read Mart (KtA) and FXMAN dropping in to this discussion...thanks guys
T

[Disfunktional-DJs]

I think everyone does it differently. I know I do it different to what Mart and Neil have advised, all tho only slightly.

I never use limiters. I find that mixing is much harder because you can have it set to limit the master channel at -0.6dbs but your individual channels are too high and find it hard to balance it. I'd only mix it at -0.6 if I was planing on mastering outside the D.A.W. Something I don't do. I do it all in the D.A.W.

I want my track to sound how it is when I'm mixing it. I don't wanna add Freq that are not there. I'd use compression and EQ on the channels needed.

I never normalize, and if I did, it would be the mp3 file I'd normalize, not the wav.

Mixing in the red is fine, if it's a good mix. I often hit red. I find sometimes I've converted from wav to mp3 and got a -0.1db spike. You can't hear it clipping but the red light flashes. I say trust your ears and you should be fine. Using good quality samples and high quality midi is a big bonus to how some get loud mixes. Cheap midi sounds normally sound weak

I'd say aim for around -0.3dbs from the D.A.W to wav. If you want a loud mix Aim for 0.0dbs and then do as you do normalize it but normalize the mp3. Just make sure it's not clipping. You can still get clipping if you're under 0.0dbs. If the mix isn't good it can still clip even tho it doesn't go over 0.0dbs. I blame limiters for that. I can mix +0.1+0.2 dbs and not hear clipping. I don't, but I have had to go back to the D.A.W just to make a tweak so it is under 0.0dbs.

[The Fondue Brothers]

Thanks to everyone for replying to my post. Good point "KTA" about eliminating unwanted Hi and Low frequency content. So I've now invested in a multiband Para EQ, and I'll EQ and compress each instrument track separately (if needed) instead of processing the whole mix.
Thanks again, and watch this space!

Bernie Dembowski.

[FXMAN]

any link to your music?