Posted: 24 August 2005 at 3:36am | IP Logged

I just read a conversation on a local message board about file swapping. It turned into an arguement about is it stealing. I always thought it was really and still do when it comes to software. But a good friend and fellow musician brought up some good points that have swayed me some when it comes to sharing music.

His argument was basically this. In the truest sense file sharing is stealing, but how does this really affect the industry? He says( and I tend to agree) Sharing music has gone on for years. It used to be called demo trading. How many bands owe their success to this stealing. Metallica for one built a following by their fans making and sharing copies of their music. Thats how the underground operates. And still does.....Why else would we all be here? Arent we hoping people will share our tunes? So we might get noticed?

The other point he made was this. What if you hear a song on the radio and really like it. So you go home and dl it. Fall in love with it so you go and get a bunch of thier songs and make youself a cd. You stole the music right? Well what about when the band comes to town. Now you want to see them live so you spend the money on the tickets then maybe a shirt or two. A key chain...whatever. When the new cd hits the stores you just cant wait so you go buy the new one the day it comes out. All of wich would not have occured if you didnt have the money to buy the first cd when you heard it on the radio. Is that really bad for the indusrty.

I was just really curious about how everyone felt on the subject here. It fascinates me because it seems to get a rise out of people. Im starting to think maybe file swapping is not the deathnail of the music industry. Any thoughts?........

Posted: 24 August 2005 at 12:22pm | IP Logged

I agree. But of course it needs to be stated clearly that MP3Unsigned is firmly opposed to this practice, for obvious reasons. So our personal feelings may not enter into the equation.

Interesting subject though, with many arguments for and against. I'll write some more when I get the chance.

Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:24pm | IP Logged

I have strong views on this which, (hyprocritically I'll admit) have changed drastically in the last year or so as my position changed. 

I never thought it was a crime worth jail-time until I started trying to sell my own music.  Now I realise that none of us can ever be financially successful with music if people regard ripping it off as acceptable.  I DO think there is a correlation between music piracy and falling CD sales and likewise between movie piracy and falling box office figures.

Like most people, I used to copy friends' tapes of Iron Maiden and Guns and Roses etc, then when CDs came out and I would make tapes of friends' CDs that I liked.  Often, if I liked it enough, I would buy the CD itself, because I wanted the genuine article and the better quality sound that went with it.

Later in life, as I got more serious about making music myself, my music collection diminished and got packed away.  I haven't bought a single CD for myself in 6 or 7 years.  In the last 2 years the only CDs I've even listened to have been made by friends (as in they made the music themselves).

I'm forced to listen to chart music in the car (I only have a radio) and on TV, but I try to avoid mainstream music as its inevitably behind the times and dummed-down for public consumption.  All the best new stuff is still unknown and breaks onto the popular scene only occasionally due to the financial clout of the big music corps.

As a result of the best stuff being small-time, its almost always free.  I've got numerous free coverdiscs CDs of music mags, and downloaded 10's of DJ mixes.  Funny thing about DJ mixes is even though these are technically illegal, artists dont appear to mind and lots of producer-DJs even use the DJ mix to pirate their own music.  The assumption is they don't mind, and use this method as advertising.  In that way, I can morally accept this.  I'd be happy to let my music be shared in this way too, just to get a name and reputation.

And of course there are OMDs like MP3Unsigned that are full of great music for free.

I'm now of the view that view that file-sharing is 100% illegal and rightly so.  Some people will want their music to be distributed freely and others will want you to buy it.

Many people have double standards regarding piracy and will happily fileshare music or software without a second thought, but at the same time will moan about the crime rate, how the police aren't tough enough on drugs, terrorists etc, but at the end of the day, these people are criminals too and people who get into the habit of mass filesharing should be persuaded to stop it as it is crippling the industry.

Posted: 24 August 2005 at 6:01pm | IP Logged

Whilst I fundamentaly disagree with Jez's viewpoint, I can see that feelings about this do run to both extremes, and that those who oppose are as passionate about their beliefs as those who agree with file swapping.

I do feel that a compromise from the music industry would not be a bad idea. They take an inlexible viewpoint of 'buying at full price = good' / 'all else = bad'. There's rarely an opportunity to 'test the water'...to try out a new band, even in a limited manner.

If I may refer briefly to the software industry...On many occasions I have downloaded demo versions, or '30 day trial' versions of certain programmes...and have been so impressed, realised that I seriously needed the software etc....that I have gone on to purchase it on the strength of the demo. Without the demo, I would not have been able to do this and learn for myself how good the programme is.

Similarly would it not be totally beyond reason to allow users to download a '30 day trial' of a new album from an up and coming band for free, or perhaps for a minumum fee?...one that expires after a certain number of plays, or trial date?

In many, many cases, I expect that the listening public would simply fall in love with the album in question, realise that they needed it in their lives, and go on to purchase it.

Ok, I'm aware that some persons would simply rip off the trial album...recording it in an audio editor, or using some sort of crack..but a vast number of people would not. Surely such a compromise is acceptable? Surely the positives outweigh the negatives? OK, so the industry bean counters may lose a few pennys to those who decided to cheat...but would this not be more than made up for by increased sales from those who do not cheat?

Just a thought.

Posted: 24 August 2005 at 7:02pm | IP Logged

Yeah I used to do that in my punk days. No Future records released a compilation called 'A Country Fit for Heroes' for £4....something or other, and I eventually ended up buying every release I could find from every band on the demo album. I got into a habit of doing that with other comilation releases. Those old 'bedroom' or 'cottage industry' labels of the past used to go out of their way to be fair and only charge the lowest price possible for their products. There always used to be stickers on the covers with things like 'pay no more than £5.00' written on them. I never begrudged the money that I spent on these releases as I knew it was a fair trade.

The big majors right now in 2005 do not care a stuff about the record buyers, except in terms of 'consumer units' and statistics, and have little or no interest in music as an art form. All is simply 'product'. Their aim is to make absolutely as much money as possible for themselves and shareholders, and this includes aggressive market segmentation tactics, and aggressive, intrusive copyright control, in order to milk every feasible drop of profit that they can. They make monumental profits....figures that are beyond belief, but are also greedy beyond belief.

The cost of a CD here in the UK is around £15.00. The public accept this fee, despite that it is one of the highest mark-ups in the world. Music in comparative countries...even in the US... costs considerably less. A typical album goes on to release a huge number of it's tracks as singles, rather than create anything original. It is also considered a better bet to regurgitate old material, in endless cover versions, remakes and copycat genre-moulds, rather than take a risk by releasing anything new, mould-breaking or original.

And then they have the bottle to claim that a handful of people sharing a few songs that they love between themselves is destroying the industry!!!!!!

Ok, fine...the serial uploaders who place thousands and thousands of MP3s on public access sites for illegal download are another matter, agree or disagree...

But those who copy a  CD for a friend, tape an album to play in their workplace, or at a party, create the odd compilation CD or tape...does that really make them evil thieves who should go to prison for depriving the music industry shareholders and greedheads of their profit?

Only my opinion mind. I'm sure others will strongly disagree.

Posted: 24 August 2005 at 7:07pm | IP Logged

The Weed system allows users to play a track 3 times befoer they need to pay for more listens.  Is this existing format acceptable to you?

Try it out here - I am doing this to test the market.

Posted: 24 August 2005 at 7:18pm | IP Logged

That's a pretty neat idea actually Jez. I've heard of this 'weed' before but did not know what it was.

The website is easy to use and well organised, though I refrained from actually grabbing anything as I am paranoid about sharing my details...giving my email etc. on sites that I don't know well, in case it is used by spammers, either knowingly or via web spiders who search for these things.

Posted: 24 August 2005 at 10:31pm | IP Logged

You should give it a try mate to see how it works.  No email or other details are needed, you just download the .wma file of the song you want and using the MIcrosoft (spit) Digital Right Management licencing system built into Windows Media Player, it allows you to play it 3 times and if you want to buy it you can.

This is the central Weed site http://www.weedshare.com

You can just click play on a track and it'll play just like they do here.

Posted: 24 August 2005 at 10:35pm | IP Logged

Mikey Dread Break Down The Walls $0.99 (Reggae) play | download	Amee Chapman Sunday Eyes $0.99 (Roots Rock) play | download
The Used To Be (Pre Superdrag) Crash Helmet $0.99 (Punk) play | download	Diner A History Of Looking Out For Me $0.99 (Pop) play | download
Analog Radio You Can't Count On Me $0.99 (Pop) play | download	Beangrowers The Farewell Party $0.99 (Rock) play | download

If management deem this innappropriate advertising then please remove this post, I have no wish to go against site policy but I think this is relavent to the post and just wish to demonstrate how easy this legal (and therefore realistic for those of us who wish to sell our music) file-sharing system is.  It certainly better than piracy.